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10 October 2007

Comments

demonax

Good news is that the House Foreign Affairs Committee passed the genocide resolution, 27-21 – morality and truth win over political expediency. Well done, Nancy Pelosi. Are you a Democrat now, Stavros?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7038762.stm

Stavros

Demonaki,

You need a few more lessons in American politics, morality and truth, rarely, if ever, trump political expediency. Nancy is trolling for votes and I wouldn't vote for her anymore than I would cast my vote for the Republicans like Bob Livingston. The choice between Republicans and Democrats like the one between ND and PASOK usually about choosing between dumb and dumber.

Nothing will change if the resolution passes. The only solace I will find will be in the expected over the top reaction of the pashas.

BTW, glad to see that your mama is keeping you well fed.

demonax

I bow to your superior knowledge of American politics.

Regarding my mama – what else would you expect?

Stavros

I am not sure I would use the word superior. What knowledge I do have is the product of getting my fingers burned.

As for your mama, I would expect absolutely nothing less and I am sure that she sent you home with enough home cooked food to keep you from wasting away to nothing until your next visit to her kitchen.

Hermes

My stove has been broken for the last week and I have been eating at my mama's every night. What a joy!

Margaret

Thank you, Stavros ;). I'm not in favour of sweeping human rights abuses under the carpet either, whatever the effect on international relations ...

I shouldn't bother mending the stove, Hermes! You all make me laugh (in a good way).

Stavros

Margaret,

I am positive there are two mothers out there that are praying hard that their boys find a nice girl to marry so they can get around to spoiling some grandchildren.

peter

The Turks have been reliable allies of the USA ? Therefore we shoud look the other way. Who cares about Armenians ? The Germans are faithful allies of the USA, why make mention and pump our brains with waves and waves of holocaustmania and holocaustianity ? Let's forget about it. We don't want to tweak the nose of the Germans, do we ? ( needless to point out that the Germans have no more noses to be tweaked, nor mor testicles left to be chewed). It is a disgraceful shame for the so called champion of human rights and democracy to decry and negate the genocide of our Armenian cousins. We have glibly forgotten about the Pontic genocide and the catastrophe of 1922 ( genocides too). We want to cozy up to the filthy Turks. Maybe we like the fetid eructations wafting out of the mouths of those mongols, and the fact that they occupy our ancestral lands, and not to forget Cyprus. All in the name of rapprochement, in the spirit of the oneness of the EU, we Greeks take the lead and bow our heads to the stinking , murderous turks. What is our quid pro quo ? Further humiliation and shame.

The word genocide was coined by Raphael Lemkin in 1944. Lemkin was one the earliest proponents of the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide, Lemkin invoked the Armenian case as a definitive example of genocide in the 20th century. Remember the year, 1944, not 1946-47- or 48. The first resolution on genocide adopted by he UN at Lemkin's urging, the December 11, 1946 UN General Assembly Resolution on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide itself recognized the Armenian Genocide as the type of crime the UN intended to prevent and punish by codifying existing standards.

The time is not appropriate ? What balderdash is that ? Let's release every murderer into the streets because the "time"is not appropriate to jail them ..yet ? It is nauseating and sickening the paltry and puerile excuses the negationist proffer in order to mollify the anger of the Turks, as if their anger is anything to be worried about, when the issue is justice and retribution for unpunished crimes . Justice is timeless, there is no such thing as appropriate time to convict a murderer, except in the minds of cowardly underlings and brainless oafs.

Unohoo

I'm so tired of the Turks! I say we wrap up Incirlik AB, Izmir AS and all the other American bases in Turkey where they seem to hate Americans. Why can't we just go back to Greece where you couldn't throw a stone without hitting an American base in this country at one time.

I'd much rather have bountiful American bases in Greece since the Greeks truly are a good ally. Plus, I have realized we have much more in common with Greeks than we ever had with Turks.

Whatever mission these bases have in Turkey, can they not be done from a major military hub here in Athens. Has anyone approached the ND government to see if we can re-establish a major US military presence in Greece again?

Stavro, could you look into this for us?

Stavros

Establishing an American presence in any one country is always problematic and guaranteed to create a backlash among the locals. Even your Albanian friends might tire of us after they have squeezed us dry.

Greeks were good allies, fought with us from Tripoli to Korea until we Americans threw in with the Turks. Now that the Turks are showing their true colors, we wonder why the Greeks don't like us.

I will look into this, however, at your behest, even though Kosta hasn't been taking my calls lately.

Rich

Great history lessons and powerful writing, as usual.

Stavros

Rich, my long lost brother, I will be calling you tomorrow to do some catching up.

Semper Fi and thanks for the video link.

Diogenes

The Armenian resolution was not only about pandering for votes but also an indirect challenge to Bush's Iraq war effort, i.e. anger the Turks to get them to withdraw their logistical support (Turkish ports and military bases form part of the U.S. supply line into Iraq), since the Democrats dare not challenge the administration on Iraq directly.

No politician (Democrat or Republican) really cares about the Armenians (or the Turks, for that matter).

BTW, if you want to get support in Washington, find an ex official willing to take up your cause (and by willing, I mean pay him enough): http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/17/washington/17lobby.html

Stavros

Diogenes,

I wouldn't doubt it for a second even though that reflects terribly on Democrats as a party.

The Bush administration like other US administrations before them is way too invested in Turkey as an ally. An ally that has proven to be less than reliable when the chips were down. What happens if Turkey decides to make a large scale incursion into Iraq against the Kurds? It is only a matter of time until Turkish interests and US interests collide.

Buying politicians is easy, the culture of corruption which the Democrats promised to sweep away is alive and well and practiced by both parties.

Hermes

Let's be serious. The US has been entwined tightly in the Turkish military industrial complex; that also includes criminal activity, for years. Lately, there are signs it has been coming apart. The divorce will also depend on the needs and wants of Israel which according to most Turks its support is now fully behind the Kurds. Personally, I cannot wait for the Turks, Israelis and Americans to drown in the Mesopotamian sinkhole. They all deserve each other.

Stavros

Be careful what you wish for. An American failure in Mesopotamia would have negative consequences for both Greece, Russia and Europe.

Hermes

That has to be one of the strangest twists of logic I have ever read i.e. now we should thank the Americans. Yes, their presence in the Balkans has been so beneficial for Greece and Europe. They have managed to create mini narco terrorist states!

The only benefit for Greece is that the Americans will remain long enough for the nascent Kurdish state to become strengthened and which can be base for Kurdish operations into Turkey. But this is not the intent of America. Russia will be thankful to see the back of the Americans as they will be able to reassert their influence in their sphere. Whilst Persia can reassert their influence amongst the people which rightfully belong to them.

Essentially, the best case scenario would be for Americans to say long enough until they are completely exhausted and they go back to America and whinge for the next 30 years and bore the rest of the planet with stupid movies about their war disasters and other assorted cinematic psychotherapy sessions.

Stavros

Hermes,

I realize that your hatred of America knows no bounds, however, put it aside for a few minutes and think about what an American defeat in the region will mean. The power vacuum will be filled by others such as Turkey, Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia. It will not be pretty and what we will have is more of the same type of government that feeds Islamic extremism.

I'll grant you that American foreign policy in the Balkans is a failure, after all we had plenty of help from the Europeans in its formulation. I am not going to defend it. It's a mess. I wonder why Greece and the rest of her European "allies" haven't been able to assert themselves in their own backyard? What exactly is stopping them? Greece is an economic powerhouse in the Balkans. Countries such as FYROM and Albania are economically dependent on trade with Greece. Why can't Greeks formulate a foreign policy that brings pressure to bear on key bilateral issues.

As for the Russians, I am not impressed at all by Putin's heavy handed approach at home or abroad. As I recall Russian influence in the Middle East consisted of selling obsolete military equipment to morally bankrupt regimes in Syria and Iraq for cash money. Now they are trying to play the middleman while building a reactor for the Iranians. How stupid is that given the fact that they have a major problem with Islamic fundamentalists in places like Chechnya.

Persia, my friend, is run by a bunch of Islamic fanatics who are living on borrowed time. The Iranian people have had enough of the corrupt mullahs who are in charge and their boy, Ahmadinejad. We are not about to turn over the Middle East to their kind any more than we are going to allow them to threaten us or their neighbors with nuclear weapons.

I think most Americans that I know would like nothing better than to wash our hands of the whole mess and go home. Unfortunately we learned a long time ago that isolationism and appeasement are losing strategies in the long term.

Hermes

You know full well why Greece cannot exert stronger influence in the Balkans. Serbia simply tried to defend the homes of her people and bombs were dropped on them.

As for the Russians, haven't the Americans been selling obselete military hardware to crackpot regimes for years? Should I list them all?

As for the rest of your post it reads like it has come from the AIPAC website. We have become giaours again!

Hermes

George Soros sponsored European CFR is about to be created. The principles: human rights, international law and democracy. What does that really mean? The destruction of distinct ethnic and national identities to create a free market liberal oekumene.

Remember George Soros, the American CFR and their lackeys in Greece like ELIAMEP have sought to get Turkey into Europe, recognise Greek Muslims as Turks, supported independence of Kosovo, have done nothing to help the Cypriots and the litany of other anti-Greek directives goes on and on.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,510882,00.html

Yes, American influence is benevolent and good!

Syriana

I suspect that this poster Hermes could be a US government agent.

Casually insulting the USA in public, but secretly wanting enemies of America to contact him with similar views. Then Hermes (sic) will step back into the role of G-MAN and jet them over to Gitmo. It has been played out before in an episode of Stargate SG-1. The protagonist (Col O'Neil) pretended to be evil to see if any "Goa'uld" sympathizers were lurking nearby. Funny how these "ASSORTED CINEMATIC PSYCHOTHERAPY SESSIONS" may indeed mimic reality.

Bravo to Hermes a true undercover American patriot!

Lex

Does it bother no one else that this Resolution excludes the existence of all of the Ionians, Pontics and Assyrians who were killed or displaced in this period? Armenians alone are the victims, eh? Please. It makes me sick.

Turks I know have been lied to so thoroughly that it is not in "the here and now" except for the Turkish government. The younger people in Turkey know nothing of the truth, and my family's success in diaspora is a greater tribute to my family than any damned Resolution timed for political consequence by half-wits.

Stavros

Lex,

I agree that this resolution is quite worthless. The Pontic and Ionian Greeks, and the Assyrians were forgotten long ago. Let's not quibble about whose "holocaust" was the worst. You are quite right most Turks are not responsible for those crimes. That doesn't mean we should forget. I would caution however, anyone who thinks that modern day Turks are completely absolved of the human rights abuses that continue to this very day against Greek Cypriots in Occupied Cyprus and Kurds and Christians living in Turkey.

Turks themselves cannot discuss these issues openly. Until they are able to do so how can they come to terms with the past or present?

Whether Islamist or Secular, all Turks are united in their sense of outrage as what they see as the West's inability to give them what they deserve, respect. This makes them dangerous in the extreme and a wild card in the region. It is only a matter of time until they flex their muscle, Western public opinion be damned.

I would like to see Turkey become a good neighbor and a source of stability in the Islamic world. I see neither of these things happening. Instead I see Turkey waiting for the right opportunity to attack the Iraqi Kurds, occupy oil rich Kirkuk which they claim and control the potential oil deposits in the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean.

These strategic objectives are prerequisites if Turkey is to attain the power status that is demanded by Turkish nationalism.

Stavros

Hermes,

George Soros was born and raised in Europe as were his cronies in the European Council. Most Americans I know abhor him as an eccentric opportunist.

Europeans in fact are much further along on the road to self destruction given their strong Leftist tilt. Please don't blame Americans for the European rush to destroy and Islamicize European culture. These are self inflicted wounds.

You can't have it both ways. Arguing on the one hand that Americans are ignorant, uncultured morons and on the other hand Machiavellian geniuses that control everything and everyone.

Hermes

Contemporary Europeans ape America. They are despicable. However, to refute your argument, there is a difference between culture (and Americans are ignorant and uncultured) and economic/politics (Americans are obsessed with capital). Americans satisfy both.

However, not all. There are some very good ones. The latest piece from Stromberg on Taki's website shows there are still good Americans on the Right.

http://www.takimag.com/site/archive/

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