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    Saint Demetrios Greek Orthodox Church, Saco, Maine, USA 10-12 July 2009

Halki Seminary

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    The Patriarchal Theological Seminary of Halki is located on the Turkish island known as Heyelbiada in the Bosporus straits. It was closed in 1971 by the Turkish government and is the subject of much controversy since it is the only seminary in Turkey and the position of Ecumenical Patriarch can only be filled by a Turkish citizen. Sign the petition to reopen it at www.greece.org

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16 August 2006

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Scruffy

Stavro,

What's the deal with Windex? You didn't mention why you Greeks love to spray Windex on everything.

Stavros

Scruff,

We may have to give up our love affair with Windex, I think people are starting to look askance at swarthy types like myself holding a fluid filled bottle and spraying it on other people.
I think a blonde haired, blue eyed wannabe Greek like you will be OK doing it though.

GreekAmericanNYC

Re: "They tend to be exuberant, passionate, enthusiastic, easily offended, loud mouthed and pig headed."

Ha -- I definitely qualify on the first four -- and there are a couple of guys on Phylax who fit the bill on the last last two...

Scruffy

I have to find out if they even have Windex over here. Windex seems more like a Greek-American thing.

Or I could just put grape juice in my windshield wipers and turn the sprayer toward the street and spray the unsuspecting pedestrians like I used to do in my teen years.

demonax

You should have kicked that Joey kid in the shins with your tsarouchia and showed him in this way the purpose of these fighting shoes, useful weapons in close up, hand-to-hand combat.
I’m not too sure how much Greek patriotism is a defence mechanism.
1. How is it possible for someone with even a rudimentary knowledge of Greek culture and history not to be swollen with pride at being Greek – much more, I think, than if you were Belgian, Canadian, Danish, Latvian or whatever. Greeks are unique, are they not?
2. I wonder how much ethnic pride associated with sons and daughters of Greek immigrants doesn’t stem from love for parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles – the ones who came over and by definition existed on the margins of society when their big hearts, intelligence and all the exemplary virtues you mention demanded much greater respect and social status. What I’m trying to say, I think, is that perhaps a lot of the pride second/third generation immigrant Greeks feel is as much pride in Greek families and Greek family history than pride in nation and national history.

Stavros

I was not necessarily talking about Greek immigrants, just Greeks in general terms. As a group I think Greeks are much more patriotic than say, Italians, regardless of where they live. Part of the reason, I believe, is that it is drummed into our heads from birth. Greek parents have been doing it for a long time. Even when Greeks lived in separate competing city states they had a sense of nationhood and pride in their Greekness.

You are absolutely right to suggest that the connection that 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants is a function of family and knowledge. There is a spectrum of connectedness/knowledge that runs from strong to non-existent.

How strong is Greek patriotism among the diaspora community? That depends on how much immigrants identify with their adopted country and how much they identify with Greece. Again there is a spectrum of possibilities. You and I are obviously at different points in that spectrum.

demonax

‘You and I are obviously at different points in that spectrum.’

Stavros
Only in as much you have strong identification with your ‘adopted’ country whereas I have very little for mine. I’m sure your pride in being Greek is as deeply felt and sincere as mine. I say this not to praise you but to point out that I reckon you’re as ‘sick’ (arrostos) with Greece as I am. Don’t deny it. It’s a common malady and rarely fatal.
The two most patriotic peoples I’ve come across are the Greeks and Italians with, as you say, the Greeks just pipping the Italians to the post in the pride stakes.
Of course, patriotism is not necessarily good in itself and not all patriots are worthy individuals.
Turkish patriotism, for example, is a result of indoctrination, uncritical thinking and mendacity and is expressed as fanaticism. Greek patriotism, on the other hand, is the patriotism of free men and women. Greek patriotism is worthwhile and enduring because of the virtues it teaches and celebrates: human liberty, culture, human progress.

Stavros

Demonaki,

Na po teen alithea, eme apogoitevmenos thia teen simerini katastasi. Evhome na allaxoune ta pragmata pros to kalitero.

I couldn't agree more with your last graph. Remember Herodotus’s description of Thermopylae, where Persian soldiers in the royal army of Xerxes were being whipped to fight, whereas Leonidas and the Spartans said they were there because they were obedient to the law that they themselves had created. What kind of army would name their triremes “Free Speech” or “Freedom” like the Athenians did at Salamis, or have a play by Aeschylus that says, "We rowed into battle saying, freedom, freedom, freedom." That is real and unadulterated patriotism. Gia kai hara.

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Searching for Ithaka

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