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27 June 2006

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George

You have a gift with words Stavros. All I can say is, Preach it Brother!

Steve Hayes

I had just written about Christianity and paganism in one of my blogs and thought I'd have a look to see who else was writing about the same topic, and came across yours.

I suspect that the question needs a lot more thought. What is "Hellenism" exactly? It seems to me that it has always meant pagan ideas.

Stavros

Hellenism, for me, is the sum total of Greek civilization. When Jesus walked the earth, the entire civilized world including many Romans and Jews were Hellenized to some degree. Greek civilization and language dominated. Christian missionaries incorporated Greek thought and the Greek language to spread the Gospel of Jesus. The "unknown God" of the Greek philosophers such as Plato was not like the traditional pagan Olympian Gods. Paul and others used this to their advantage to make Christianity an ecumenical religion.

I would recommend you read Early Christianity and Greek Paideia by Werner Jaeger. It will explain alot.

Your assertion about the Byzantines in your post is only partially correct:

From Wikipedia:

Byzantines were generally conscious of their continuity with ancient Greeks and Romans. Even though the ancient Greeks were not Christians, the Byzantine intellectuals regarded them as their ancestors, and referring to their medieval Greek language as "Hellenic". In fact, the Byzantines did not only refer to themselves as Rōmaioi in order to retain both their Roman citizenship and their ancient Hellenic heritage. A common substitute for the term "Hellene" (originally with pagan connotations) other than Rōmaios was the term Graikos (Γραίκος).

As a practicing Orthodox Christian I understand that Orthodox Christianity does not belong to any one ethnic group. God judges us on what we do not who or what we are. Nevertheless, my faith is interwined with my ethnicity but is not defined by it. Your example of St Lazar's dilemma and choice is very appropriate.

Lakis Velotris

Ρωσσικών Ρίζων Αποπείρων Μακεδονίας

330 πχ Ο Μεγας Αλέξανδρος περίφραξεν τους πρότους Ρώσσους, τους
Μαγώγ του Περσικού Γώγ, με την Κάσπιαν πύλυν της Καυκάσιας Δερβεντίας.
Οι Σκύθοι, Τούρκοι, και Ρώσσοι είναι ακριτές, βάρβαβρα αποσπάσματα των
Πέρσων, και συνολικός αποτελούν το αιώνιον πλήγμα του Ελλινισμού.

866 Ο Πατριάρχης Φώτιος εναρξεί σχίσμα κατα Πάπα Ρώμης Νικάλαον εξ
αιτίας Βουλγαρικών επιπολαιοτήτων υπερ της Ρώμης. Τουτο σπιούνευσαν οι
ανατολήται Πλατωνικοί μαύροι εκκλησιαστικοί οι οποιοί νίκησαν τους
Αριστοτελιανούς λευκούς μετα του ικονοκλασμού.

1235 Οι Βούλγαροι αυτοκερύχθησαν Τρίτη Ρώμη εις Τούρνοβον,
θέλοντας να πάρουν Ελλάς και Κωνσταντινούπολιν. Τουτο
μετα υιοθετούν το 1589 οι Ρώσσοι. Προκηρούν τον προτόπορον
κουμουνισμόν της πρότυπης οβσύηνας δια την σλαυοποίησην του κόσμου.

1342 Οι κουμουνισταί Ζηλοταί ανέλαβαν εξουσίαν εν
Θεσσαλονίκην σφάζωντας την αριστοκρατείαν επι διάταγμαν του
Ρωσσικού πράκτορα Γρηγωριού Παλαμάν. Ο Παλαμάς έφερε Σλαύους και
Τούρκους να υποστήριξουν τον Καντακουζινόν να διαρρήξη τον αυτοκράτοραν
το 1345. Ετσι οι Τούρκοι απέκτησαν γνώσην Ελληνικής αμύνης. Εσπειραν
την ανατολήτηκην δαιμονίαν του ησυχασμού μετατρέπτοντας τους
μοναχούς εις πράκτορες κουμουνισμού.

1824 Η Ρωσσια αντιτίθεται είς την δημιουργίαν μοναδικου Ελληνικού
κράτους και δ'υπομνήματος της του Υπουργού Εξωτερικών Νεσσελρόδης
(Γερμανός, οποίος ενικήσεν την θέσην του εναντίον τον Καποδίστρια),
προτείνει εις τας λοιπάς δυνάμεις την ίδρυσιν τριων κεχωρισμένον
Ελληνικών κρατιδίων, υποτελών ταυτόχρονα εις Τουρκίαν και
Ρωσσίαν, κατα παράδειγμαν Μολδοβλαχίας.

1843 Επι εντολήν του Νεσσελρόδη αποστέλλεται ο πανσλαυιστής
Αρχιμανδρίτης Ουσπένσκης δια να εξεγείρη το Αραβοκατοχημένων Χριστιανικόν
ποίμνιον κατα των Ελληνόφωνων, δηλ Πατρ Ιεροσολύμων και Αντιοχείας και
τελικώς επιτυγχάνει το 1847 την απόσπασιν του της Αντιοχείας οποιοι
τωρα διεκδικούν αφελληνοποίησιν διασποράς. Η λύση είναι η Παναγία της
Φατιμάς fatima.org tfp.org. Στρέφων πρως ταις Περσοζορωαστριανών των
ρίζων, οι Ρωσσοι ασπάζων τους μονοφυσιταίς ως παρεξηγημένα θύματα
των Ελλήνων, και μηχανεύουν ταχα Αραμαήστα ευαγγέλια να διαψεύσουν
τα Ελληνιστά. Τουτες προσπαθείες επιτυγχάναν αιώνα αργότερα με το
Μιχαήλ Αφλάκη, οποιος ίδρυσεν το κομμαν Βάαθ του Σαδδάμη και Ασσάδη.

1870 Οι Πανσλαυισταί κατήνεγκον νέον δεινόν πλήγμα κατά του
Οικοθμενικού Πατριαρχείου διά της εκδόσεως Τουρκικού φιρμανίου
δια την ίδρυσιν Αυτοκεφάλων Βουλγαρικών φυλετικών παρασυναγωγών,
ταχα Εξαρχία, κατα διαταγμαν του Ρωσσου πρέσβεως Ιγνάτιευ,
καταγωγος οποιου τωρα διεκδικει Καναδικη προθυπουργεια. Η λυση
ειναι η Παναγια του Φατιμα fatima.org tfp.org. Διαθεσαν πεντομύρια
ρουβλίων το 1872 προς εκσλαυισμόν Αγίου Ορως και εκδίωξιν Ελλήνων
Μοναχών οσων δεν ασπαζων τον δαιμονικων περσογεννης ησυχασμον.

1878 Η Ρωσσια αναγκάζει την Τουρκίαν να υπογράψη Συνθήκην Αγίου
Στεφάνου (προκυπτρων σημερινων Σλαβο Σκοπιανων) δι ης δημιουργείται
Μεγάλη Βουλγαρία (συμπεριλαμβων Θεσσαλονικην) έργον εξ ολοκληρου του
Ιγνάτιευ οστις κατα την υπογραφήν ανεφώνησεν ¨και τώρα εάν οι Ελληνες
το επιθυμούν δύνανται να μεταβούν εις Κωνσταντινούπολιν κολυμβώντες¨.

1923 Ο Πλαστίρας έσφαξεν τους Μακεδονονίκας και επέτρεψεν τους
ανατολίτας Βαφιάδην και Ζαχαριάδην ενάρξουν ενφύλιον πόλεμον. Ο
Μελέτιος Μεταξάκης θέλει να μεταφέρη το Πατριαρχίον εις Μόσχαν κατα
πρόσκλυσην Λένινως και οργανόνουν Σύνδεσμον ταχα πανορθοδόξεως νεολέας.

Hermes

Let the Christians speak for themselves:

Saint Basil the Great, Bishop of Caesarea (alias Santa Claus)

«The Greeks are enemies, for they delight in devouring Israel with their mouth wide open» « By mouth the prophet means (see Isaiah 9.11) the power of the sophists speech that will use every argument to confuse the simple believers»

Saint Basil of Caesarea ON PROPHET ISAIAH

«My Order is, (!!!) Show no cowardice when you are faced with the Greeks hypotheses, which resemble wood, or rather a used up torch that has lost its liveliness and all power of the wood, and neither does it display any more the torches glow. Indeed like extinguished, smoking torches they will stain black and dishonor he who would reach for them and bring tears to the eyes of those who would venture near them. The same effect has (The Greeks) falsely named knowledge to the people who would use it»

Basil the Great (alias Santa Claus) (330-379AD) FOREWORD TO THE PROPHET ISAIAH 7.196.3)

JOHN CHRYSOSTOM , archibishop of Constantinople

«Should you look into (Greek ideas) you will see ashes and dust and nothing wholesome but a gaping grave that is the larynx (Of the Greek philosophers) and everything filled with impurities and pus, their doctrines swarming with vermin this is what the Greeks begot and expanded, taking over from the philosophers as for ourselves we will not resign from the fight against them».

John Chrysostom (344-407AD) ON SAINT JOHN THE APOSTLE (SPEECH Ξ΄Σ΄) 59.369.12-370.11


Note the philobarbarian attitude of Saint John Chrysostom:

«The more a nation looks barbaric and is estranged from Greek culture, the more our teachings shine this (faithful) barbarian has conquered the entire world and while all Greek culture is extinguished and destroyed, his (the barbarians) shines brighter every day».

Saint John Chrysostom TO JOHN 59.31.33


Saint John Chrysostom undermines the status of the library of Alexandria with torching statements:

«Why therefore, should the Temple of Serapis (The Library of Alexandria) be considered sacred on account of the books? It should not be! but demons occupy the place rather these are ( the Greeks) demons themselves an invisible altar stands next to them on which human souls are sacrificed so understand and spread the word that demons occupy the place».
John Chrysostom ADVERSUS JUDAEOS 48.851.38 to 852.35

Demons according to the wise Archbishop were the books of the Library of Alexandria and soul-sacrificing altars the Greek Libraries!

Accordingly the PATRIARCE OF ALEXANDRIA THEOPHILUS finally demolished the Library in 391 A.D.:

«In Alexandria all the buildings of the Temple of Serapis had a fate similar to the poetic tales of the Giants during the Kingdom of Theodosius and presiding of Theophilus, the votive offerings were destroyed-And they fought the statues and the votive offerings so «valiantly» that they not only triumphed but stole them as well of the Temple of Serapis it was only the foundation stones they did not remove, and that because of the weight of the stones, that (the foundation stones) were immovable. These militant and avaricious «braves»considered the desecration to be a commendable act. Then we were invaded by so called monks, a sort of people, who lead a pig's life and are obviously deranged, perpetrating millions of unheard of evil acts, thinking these were acts of devotion.. At that time any man wearing a black robe had a tyrant's power and could perpetrate any ugly act in public. To this «virtue» were people transformed by the new religion». EUNAPIOS (346-414AD) VITAE SOPHISTORUM 6.11.4

EUSEBIUS BISHOP OF CAESAREA IN PALESTINE (265-340AD)
«Your poor and wretched people, you have raised from the manure of the Greek excrements and you have seated him among the Lords of Israel, his own people».

Eusebius Praep Evang./ON PSALMS / HALLELUJAH. ΡΙΒ΄(23.1352.34)

Relevant passages from the Writings of Eusebius:

«Abandoning the Greek follies is an act of wisdom». «Abandon all the Greeks philosophers have proposed on the beginning of things». «(The Greeks) perform witchcraft and therewith force the minds of persons». «Their statues are created with witchcraft and they lead you to sorcery». «Of ancient Hebrews and why we preferred their Scriptures over the Greek words». «The Greeks benefited in everything from the barbarians». «Thieves of ideas are the Greeks». «Why after reasonable judgment and wise deliberation we admitted the truth of the Hebrew history». MIGNE PATROLOGY


GEORGE THE MONACHUS CHRONOGRAPHER

«As for myself I consider the Greek culture nonsense, uttered by an evil demon and the saddest of affairs»

GEORGIUS MONACHUS Chronogr. ON THARRA

JOHN CHRYSOSTOM forbids use of Greek names

«None must call his children the (Greek) ancestors names, be that of their father, their mother, their grandfather or their great grandfather, but instead you must use those of the righteous (of the Old Testament)

John Chrysostom De inani gloria et de educandis liberis (690) 641.65


John Chrysostom recruited mercenaries to systematically demolish the Greek majestic buildings:

«John the Great (Chrysostom) gathered monks inflamed with the zeal of the Lord (fanatical monks), armed them with royal mandate and sent them against the heathen (Greek) shrines. The money paid to those working in demolition and to their assistants he did not obtain from the royal treasury (!) but from wealthy ladies he convinced to contribute so they would obtain the blessing of the Lord with the splendor of their faith. In this way he razed to the ground the rest of the buildings (Temples, monuments, graves, houses)». THEODORETUS ECCLESIASTICAL ΙΣΤ΄ HISTORY TO DAMASIUS (Vol.5, 329/8-330/8)

Stavros

May I add St. Paul to your list?

For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this world? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness; but unto them that are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God stronger than men.
(1 Corinthians 1:19-25)

Hermes

Catastrophe. Who was this Paul (Saul)?

Stavro

Just another celibate Jew.

Honorary Serb

Stavro, those quotations are fascinating, but what do they signify? Argument from authority is the weakest argumen(Aristotle). Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "A need for quotation confesses inferiority."
A simple study of the classical technique of argument shows that an opponent's position must be represented in its best light.

demonax

Honorary Serb
An interesting comment, except that in your criticism of argument from authority you refer to Aristotle – a pretty high authority – and in illustrating your aversion to the use of quotations, you quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson.

When you say that the ‘classical technique of argument [aspires to represent an] opponent's position in its best light’; can you provide more detail on this. Is this from Aristotle, a Sophist, Isocrates? Who argues this? Thank you.

Honorary

Hi Demonax:
I'm suitably chastened by your point about my use of quotations. I wonder at the same time how Hermes can continue to pile up quotations without integrating them into an argument.
Regarding my point about argument, setting aside the Sophists, we can say that Sokrates certainly went beyond mere quotation, but strove to capture the thinking of his interlocutors.
So back to Hermes...these quotations represent a whole line of thought that has considerable subtlety and contains conditioned evaluations of philosophy and its place in Orthodoxy. A quotation cannot capture this complexity. All we can conclude is that these monks and bishops were animated about a subject that contains a certain built-in tension.
Hermes, in sophistic fashion, wants the quick take-down.
Fine. I'll find quotations of exasperated party X on the subject of faction Y. It's just not conclusive. People say things in the heat of conflict. Understand who is speaking, why, to whom,etc.
Isn't this multiplicity of opinion what the ancients meant by doxoi? Fine, people say all sorts of things.
I try to see through this, unshaken, unmoved. Not blown about by every wind of doctrine.

It's ironic that on the same page, hellenism is characterized as open, not legalistic, open when some might be judgemental and yet here we have a entire list of statements that appear to be closed, certainly not in an affirming tone, and the quotations being used to provoke, not to further insight.

Hermes

Putting aside sentimentality and inheritance of Orthodoxy we need to understand the fundamental nature of Philosophy and Christianity. Other arguments that much of classical philosophy was fused into Christianity are different arguments and not relevant.

Even with the end of the city-state and politics, philosophy had gradually come to be understood as a quintessentially Hellenic activity.

Classical philosophers start with no preconditions for which conclusions they must reach in their investigation. Essentiually they do not assume any thing including the belief in God, the son of God and any thing else. To truly philosophise means to make no assumptions. In contrast, to be a Christian, a set of religious principles of faith that they hold one must believe. Basically, philosophers and Christians start at different points. Christianity assumes the answers before they are asked and philosophy assumes nothing.

Indeed, due to these divergent goals and views, some hold that one cannot simultaneously be a philosopher and a true adherent of a revealed religion. In this view, all attempts at synthesis ultimately fail.

One reason why it is difficult to get much clarity on this issue is because the large corpus of Apologetics. Indeed, some Christians and pseudo-philosophers believe that one way to find a synthesis is to use philosophical arguments to prove that one's preset religious principles are true. This is a common technique found in the writings of many religious traditions, including Judaism, Christianity and Islam, but is not generally accepted as true philosophy by classical philosophers.

Christianity, however, introduced a dilemma into Greek and Roman philosophies that were primarily based on skeptical principles. In many ways, the philosophy of Christianity, which insisted on an absolute knowledge of the divine and of ethics, did not fit the Greek and Roman skeptical emphasis on probable knowledge. Paul of Tarsus, one of the original founders of Christianity, answered this question simply: the knowledge of the Romans and Greeks, that is, human knowledge, is the knowledge of fools.

Knowledge that rejects human reasoning, which, after all, leads to skepticism, is the knowledge of the wise. Christianity at its inception, then, had a strong anti-rational perspective. This did not, however, make the skeptical problem go away. Much of the history of early Christian philosophy is an attempt to paste Greek and Roman philosophical methods and questions onto the new religion.

Obviously, understanding the incompatibility between philosophy and Christianity does not preclude belief in a God or gods, the sacred, the divine and so on.

Cotsos Vrakas

άσε μας τώρα! Οι Εβραίοι κατασκεύασαν τον χριστιανισμό να διώξουν τους έλληνες απο τα Ιεροσόλυμα. Μέτα έφτιαξαν και τον μωάμεθ πάλι να μας διώξουν. Τώρα κλαίν για τα αποτελέσματα. Τους αξίζουν.

Peter

Without adding nor detracting from the discourse, from an "impartial" perspective, and without delving too deep, it appears that they are not compatible, speaking from a purely dogmatic platfrom.
Christianity was the end product of an intense marketing campaign by one itinerant grand jew saul. Hellenism was rooted and sprang from the peoples inhabiting hellas, it was a genuine hellenic religion; a diametrically , genetically composed race ,from those dream merchants inhabiting the the east.

It is equally important to acknowledge that christianity and orthodoxy is the very essence of hellenics today.

Hermes

"It is equally important to acknowledge that christianity and orthodoxy is the very essence of hellenics today."

No it is not. Greeks are only nominally Christian, meaning they partake in the rituals and customs, but hardly any of them are really Christian. Christianity is a montrosity.

"Porphyry is one of history's most astute minds. Our understanding of Aristotle (for instance his Categories) would be much poorer without Porphyry's commentaries. His employment of Alexandrian critical methodology utilised historical analysis to arrive at an understanding of mythical & pseudo historical texts. One such critique by Porphyry exposed a popular book on Persian religious practice, the "Zosimus", to be a recent book and therefore a fraud. He also analysed the Odyssey concluding that its stories were to be interpreted as allegories. Employing this very same technique, he demonstrated christian mythology to be a series of unhistorical myths. Where-as the god of Greek philosophy (as posited by Aristotle for instance), employed logic and argument to arrive at the "unmoved mover", the Christians demanded that their god be accepted solely on the basis of unquestioning and blind acceptance. In this world of Greek thought, the bible's myths had no chance of survival. (It is not without reason that the Christian's holy book states in 1 Corinthians 1:22-25 "Jews demand miraculous signs and the Greeks look for wisdom, but we teach Christ crucified... the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom" and 1 Corinthians 3:19-20 "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight... 'The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.'")

Porphyry's work it should be noted was written in the context of the philosophical debates of his times, like those of Stoics refuting Epicureans (& vice versa), even the debates between (pagan) Simplicius and (Christian) Philoponus (later) in the fifth & sixth centuries. That Christianity is a fraud was evidently already known in antiquity. Had Porphyry been heeded humanity may have been spared considerable suffering.

That Porphyry successfully exposed Christian doctrine to be a fraud can possibly be best attested to by the scurrilous reactions to his doing so. It should be noted that Theodosius' edict to have the book burnt was an act emulated in the book-burnings by that other Christian embarrassment, Hitler, (over) one and a half millennia later.

It should be embarrassing to christians that most of Porphyry's other writings on logic were used without interruption by both christians and non-christians: thus Porphyry's logic was sound when used in non-Christian subjects, but the same logic applied to Christianity was flawed!"


Stavros

Peter, Costa and Hermes,

I think all of us would agree that it is imperative that Greece survive as a Nation. The question is how do we accomplish this given the forces that would transform Greece into another faceless entity.

The Helleno-Christian identity is key to Greek nationalism. The Greek Left and those opting for an "enlightened" state recognize this and therefore seek to secularize Greek society. This effort, if successful promises to destroy the Church and its ability to not only tie Greeks together but offer them something more than a consumer- based narcissistic view of the world.

Hermes

There is increasing speculation Greeks may have been right all along: an eternal recurring universe implying cyclical/spherical time rather than the teleological eschatology of the Jews and their plagiarists the Christians.

Read here......

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/turok07/turok07_index.html

Peter

The church is seemingly defenceless against the relentless onslaught bearing down on her. Our Church is always on the retreat at the national level, mere poltroon pseudo orthodox politicos toy with the values and age old sanctity of the priesthood. And yet the church does not react one iota.The end result is the separation or alienation of the folk and the church.

At the international level they are merrily digging our graves by partnering and making alliances with organizations and secular bodies which are busily engaged in promoting the multicultural and anti-christian transformation of the continent.

Michael Stylian Kardamakis

http://drgvichia.blogspot.com/

Είναι αλήθεια ότι η Εκκλησία μας είναι μπάχαλο. Μακάρι οι χριστιανικές εκκλησίες να επιδείκνυαν ομόνοια, αρετή και φιλανθρωπία, ανεξαρτήτως από το αν έχει αγαθές προθέσεις ο τάδε ή ο δείνα, ο κατά τόπους εκάστοτε ιεράρχης. Αυτή τη στιγμή έχουμε πραγματικά άξιους ποιμενάρχες, όπως ο Βαρθολομαίος στην Κωνσταντινούπολη, ο Ιερώνυμος στην Αθήνα, ο Αναστάσιος στα Τίρανα, ο Παύλος στο Βελιγράδι (αν ζει ακόμα) και ο Βενέδικτος στη Ρώμη. Καλοί είναι και ο Έλληνας πάπας Αλεξανδρείας, ο Σύριος πατριάρχης Αντιοχείας, και κάμποσοι ακόμα... Και όμως η Αγία Καθολική Αποστολική Εκκλησία είναι κομμάτια. Βρίσκεται εντελώς λυμαινόμενη από μικροπολιτικά συμφέροντα, και μαστιζόμενη από στεγανά ιδεολογικών και λησταρχικών παραμάγαζων!!! Αλλά και δογματικά η Εκκλησία μας έχει παρακμάσει, έχει σαπίσει, με μια διαδικασία που είχε ξεκινήσει ήδη από τον 5ο αι μ.Χ. Υπεύθυνοι γι’αυτήν την αλλοίωση ήταν κυρίως Έλληνες και Καππαδόκες ιεράρχες, που αλληλομισούνταν, αξίζει να σημειωθεί. Δε φταίνε σε τίποτα ούτε οι πολύπαθοι Εβραίοι, αλλά ούτε και οι Σύριοι Χριστιανοί, οι πιστοί της αρχικής, αγνής Εκκλησίας (θεολογική σχολή Αντιοχείας), η οποία παρέμεινε (στα χρόνια του Μεσαίωνα, τουλάχιστον) ήπια και μετριοπαθής, παρόλο που αντιμετώπισε την αλαζονεία των αντίστοιχων Εκκλησιών Ελλήνων (Κωνσταντινούπολη), Αιγυπτίων (Αλεξάνδρεια) και Ιταλών (Ρώμη). Ύστερα από αντίδραση τους στη συγκρητιστική αναβάθμιση του Ιησού σε ηλιακό Θεό (Ορφέας-Απόλλων-Ήλιος ο Αήττητος-Μίθρας, με γενέθλια στις 25 Δεκεμβρίου), και της Μαρίας σε αιγαιακού τύπου Μητέρα-Θεά, οι Σύριοι Χριστιανοί, οι ομιλούντες αραμαϊκά, τη γλώσσα του Ιησού, στιγματίστηκαν ως αιρετικοί, "Νεστοριανοί", και αποκόπηκαν από τον Ελληνορωμαϊκό Κόσμο, ο οποίος συνέχισε τον ασύμφορο δρόμο της μισαλλοδοξίας του "Ορθοδόξου Δόγματος" (μια φράση που τα λέει όλα, νομίζω), μέχρι που φτάσαμε εδώ που φτάσαμε: Τρεις κι ο κούκος, να διυλίζουμε τον κώνωπα και να ισχυριζόμαστε ότι για όοολα τα κακά μας φταίνε κάποιοι μοχθηροί που μας ξεγέλασαν και μας έκαναν Χριστιανούς. Το ίδιο μπορούν να ισχυριστούν και οι Ρώσοι, οι Ουκρανοί, οι Λευκορώσοι, οι Δραγοβίτες (Σλαβομακεδόνες), οι Βούλγαροι, οι Μοραβοσλοβάκοι, οι Σέρβοι, οι Αιθίοπες και κάμποσοι άλλοι, για εμάς τους Έλληνες. Όντως υπάρχει σοβαρό πρόβλημα με το σύγχρονο Ελληνισμό. Όμως, αιτία δεν είναι ο Ελληνορθόδοξος Χριστιανισμός, αλλά οι παντός τύπου φανατισμοί, η μισαλλοδοξία. Π.χ το να βλέπεις κάποιον και να θέλεις να του βγάλεις τ'άντερα έξω, επειδή είναι γαύρος κι όχι βάζελος, πράσινος κι όχι βένετος, μαύρος κι όχι ευρωπαίος, πιστεύει στον Αλλάχ και όχι στον Απόλλωνα...

http://drgvichia.blogspot.com/

Paul

This is a great blog! So glad that everyone is writing about something else besides celebrities...

Here's the deal: the Greek Orthodox Church (especially in Greece) is experiencing a kind of inner rot. What do I mean? It has lost the allegiance of the young because it has lost all relevance to their lives. It has nothing new to say to them, nor will the clergy truly minister to their most pressing issues.

The programming (indoctrination) that is necessary for a religion to survive hasn't taken-they've taken religion classes either in public school(in Greece) or in Sunday school(in the U.S.)but they see clearly that what is said does not match what is done.

When a priest is checking his messages on his cell phone while chanting the Liturgy, it doesn't look right. I saw this in a video posted on YouTube. And what astonished me was the response...most people either had the opinion, "Phooey, he's a priest, what do you expect?" or else, "He's a priest, don't talk like that!" Either way, through cynicism or ignorant faith, the transmission of the religion has been severed. The cynic is incapable of faith, and the ignorant's faith can't stand the test of real life.

This is not a good thing, because people need values they can live by. Hopefully, the Church will take seriously the job of developing souls; I'm doubtful, however, because the priority seems to be its own institutional management and survival.

Ardi

I really think you are delirious and ill minded. You are so obsessed with your nationality (not a surprise since you are greek) that you actually made yourself to believe in some kind of divine "greek existence", just because you are greek. You speak of "values" and "links" between ancient Hellenism and the greeks of today as if you were telling a fairytale, a mythic story to amaze yourself over and over again.

Really, being a greek is no better than being anything else. And what are those divine "greek values" the you are going to give to pass over to your children? You'd better pass over some German values, or French, British. As for "greek values", you kidding me?

Imagine if the true great nations of today where like the greeks. Imagine the italians, bragging all day long about their roman ancestors, or the British about the British empire. What about the French? The Germans, the Dutch, or the Swedish and Norwegians. Maybe the Chinese and the Japanese. They are the mighty nations of today, the cradle of civilisation, centers of science and technology, phylosofy and medicine, not greece and certainly not the greek people. Greece is tourism and it should hold on to that.
And you should stop dreaming with your eyes open.

Epicurus

Ardi, with all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. You can't even spell "philosophy" properly, so I don't know what good it would do to try to explain to you what you what you might need to know about the history of civilization -- the living history, to this day, not whatever you seem not to have learned in school. Don't worry, you're not alone, most people don't realize how deep this runs.

Try this, though. Watch the BBC's "Rough History of Disbelief" by Jonathan Miller. It's all on YouTube. It might strain your attention span, by try to watch the whole thing. You might learn a thing or two. It is excellent -- and still only a small fraction of the story. Here's a link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ces8BmWQHU

Good luck.

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